Should California Secede from the United States?

“Yes (sort of),” says Chris Hables Gray, a “pragmatic anarchist feminist revolutionary” who works as a lecturer of Interdisciplinary Studies at the University of California, Santa Cruz and Cal State Monterey. He believes “devolution” of large nations into smaller regions will improve democratic decision-making.

While I do agree with Dr. Gray on a lot, I do not see us overthrowing/getting rid of the money system in any fashion (We’ve been using coins and such since the earliest civilizations). Also, every state is still pretty dependent upon the Federal government for things like Road construction/repair money, Medicaid and Medicare money, things of that sort. So unless every state somehow could answer each of those and more, I don’t see any state seceding from the USA. And ignore Texas legislators saying they will do so. The last time Texas was independent, it’s considered the worst time in Texas history. I fail to understand this whole secessionist movement. No state can answer their own challenges about money without help from the Federal government in some fashion.

If the US were to start dividing up, who would get all the nukes? Does each region keep all the nukes in its territory?

Ecotopia portrayed northern California seceding from the US along with Oregon and Washington; the deserts of S. Cal. were perceived in the book as differing greatly from the Pacific Northwest.

I think a better plan would be to just slice off the irredeemable regions—the Pakistan-like backwaters—Texas, east through S. Carolina, plus Tennessee and Kentucky. As a resident of N. Carolina, it is clear we are far less advanced than California, but we’re about 50% civilized and redeemable. I’d say the same for Virginia. New England, Illinois, New York, Wisconsin—these are by and large good places.

Wow, this is incredibly idealistic and dangerous.  There is no other way to say this - there are many many people who have sworn an oath to defend the constitution of the United States of America.  Furthermore, it is unambiguous that Chris Hables Gray is an enemy of the USA, and it’s constitution.

It is very important (because I believe in civil speech) that I say that I am not making a threat of violence, but frankly I don’t see a way around it: there will be a civil war if such foolish talk becomes a threat to the national security of the United States of America.  It will be squashed ruthlessly and efficiently with overwhelming military force.  Gosh, I am not even a patriot nor particularly religious, but God bless America.

I and many many others would give our life rather than see a repeat of the US civil war.

“I hold that, in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination.” (1st Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861)

If the people would participate it might have more democracy. But it might not get better economics. A study by two World Bank economists found that Africa would be far better today if it were one country. Democracy may not be the best type of government for a nation. China’s one-party system has done wonders for bringing people out of poverty hugely increasing educational opportunities. It has certainly been effective in the economics here.
Contrast this with the US where lobbyists of business and other groups controlling large number of legislators and put in place laws that are not to the benefit of the people. Look at Obama care. Obama wanted limits on malpractice awards against doctors and hospitals. The lawyers lobby stops that. He wanted the federal option. The insurance lobby stop that. Consequently the US pays more for medical care than any other country but our health delivery system is rated 39th in the world.
It seems to me that the ideas of Plato still have the best chance at making a happier society. America’s pursuit of money has not made it a happiest country in the world. Denmark has that honor according to the OECD. The US is 11th.
Let us first determine what we want from our society, money or happiness. Then let us figure the best way to achieve it.

“I hold that, in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination.” (1st Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861)

That was 151 yrs. ago, things are different now; for starters the GOP is no longer the champion of the enslaved/quasi-enslaved.
Mr. Brin pointed out how America is not comparable to ancient Rome—or at least not to the Roman empire—yet IMO it may be comparable to the Soviet Union in some way or the British empire.. which was emulated at one time.
America was created by the Framers mainly for commerce, it was 1776- ‘89 and the age of Adam Smith was beginning. America does v. well at business however merely for instance it can’t work together even so much to give its K-12 students a better education—which for the ‘greatest country in the world’ is shameful; and IMO since America was primarily created for commerce such wont change, because then what it means to be America would be altered to something else, something unknown.
The Soviet Union tried to reform itself and dissolved because you cannot be a Communist nation and not be a Communist nation at one and the same time; a snake cannot be a centipede. Isaac Newton could not have been reincarnated as a one-celled organism and still remain Isaac Newton.
So how can America cease being predatory-yet-productive nation and still remain America?: it would have to be dissolved into smaller parts as the former Soviet Union was.

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