If cows were time travelers - I would stop eating most meat! Let me explain…. the ability to be a time traveller is a critical defining marker in how we must practically interpret the nature of any given animal consciousness.
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Posted by
Nathan Haslewood on 09/11 at 10:19 AM
This article… it’s arguments are simplistic and wrong. The author does not realise that he’s judging legitimate consciousness from a purely human perspective. He is prejudiced by speciesism without ever realising it himself…
Posted by
MythicMeats on 09/11 at 11:37 PM
Nathan - let me reply by turning your arguments on their head….indeed I’ll do you one better and provide reasons rather than mere insults 
So I would argue if you disagree in the way most readers have thus far - than it is your arguments that are ‘simplistic and wrong’. That it is you judging consciousness from a ‘purely human perspective’. All of which I suppose we could call ‘poor thinking’
There is nothing simplistic in admitting that consciousness is ineffably complex - and that this complexity has direct implication for an organisms experience, meaning system, and interests. There is nothing simple is trying to weigh individual interests against the interest of a group - especially multiple, diverse, and global groups. That is all I do here - and conclude that - on balance- the ethics of humane slaughter of humanely raised cows may be more navigable than most Animal Rights folks will realise.
To assume I am wrong about the nature of cow consciousness is certainly to be stuck in a box of what it’s like to be human. As humans we live in a world of animal emotion tempered only just so recently by displaced symbolic reason….. this does not mean we are better in any way - it does mean we have a hard time getting beyond a ‘purely human perspective’ - something I feel this article gets at better than others.
Lastly - just to clarify again - there is absolutely NO judgement regarding the ‘legitimacy’ of any animals consciousness at all. This is something many are criticising but is a fantasy being dredged up from the Animal Rights playbook. There is no hierarchy in this model. It seem seeks to take a non-human centric perspective on what cow consciousness is like - what there interests geniuinely may be in the harsh reality of earth - and how to ethically balance on this on our complex and grass-rich planet.
If I am speciesist - it is in reverse - I think cows are great folks to be around most always - humans just sometimes 
Posted by
MythicMeats on 09/12 at 12:07 AM
To clarify on Nathan’s comments and from many on Facebook - the argue is NOT “cows don’t ‘time travel’ and we do - so we’re better and we can eat them” - that would truly be ridiculous
The argument is that humans can raise AND slaughter cows in ways that reasonably appear preferable for the creature - and on balance with global needs and their own interests - it may be ethically navigable to conduct humane slaughter at an age younger than terminally old.
Posted by
Nathan Haslewood on 09/12 at 11:51 AM
Hi Dustin. Sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude. I think I’m still missing the point of the article. In essence, are you saying that it’s OK to slaughter cows as long as they are raised and killed painlessly? If this is the case, then I don’t have issue with your argument. But it does make me wonder why on earth you talked about cow consciousness in the first place. Because then the crux of your argument really does rest on what Bentham pointed out - that suffering is what counts - and you’re simply reflogging an old horse. No?
Posted by
Chrontius on 09/13 at 05:42 AM
There’s the additional argument that more or less every single option for natural death *sucks*.
Phenomenally.
Let us remember the perspective that was handed to us by Mother Nature. She’s not really a nice lady.
Even current high-intensity agriculture is probably, from my lunch’s perspective, significantly preferable to “eaten alive by wolves”. A well-placed sniper’s bullet to the brain reducing said organ to a fine pink mist is a significant improvement (in terms of decreased unpleasantness) over modern humane slaughter techniques, too. If we can argue only that this is more ethical than the alternative, it should be adopted, even if only as a stopgap while we have a more in-depth discussion as a society about whether it’s right to raise animals as food.
This should probably also include a discussion on whether raising animals as food is more or less ethical than driving them into extinction (or a near miss costing most of their genetic diversity) due to competition with humanity.
Posted by
MythicMeats on 09/25 at 06:41 AM
Sorry for the delay - I’ve been away in the field.
@Nathan - no problem - I appreciate the heat, and these ideas should be rigorously debated!
I do think Chrontius has it right in his comments; and it is these multiple, if minute, complexities that I intended to outline - regarding the nature of suffering likely involved for the cattle. So while I agree with Bentham’s utilitarianism - my intent was simply to probe the complexities of the particulars of the situation from a cow’s eye view
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