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Transgender and Transhuman - the alliance, the complaints and the future
Transhumanism and Transgenderism enjoy a close relationship due to mutual interest in enhancement technology. Multiple transgenders are valuable spokespeople in H+, such as IEET fellow Martine Rothblatt, IEET contributor and KurzweilAI editor Amara Angelica, and the brilliant tech writer for Acceler8or and hplusmagazine that I interviewed for this article: Valkyrie Ice.
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COMMENTS
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/15 at 01:52 PM
Thank you for the interview, Hank.
For those interested in reading more, the following is a short list of what I consider some of my most important articles discussing the implications of what I see developing:
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/virtualization-rise-avatar-open-sim-project
http://hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/virtualization-avatar-mirrorworlds-part-two
http://hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/virtualization-virtual-reality-part-3
http://hplusmagazine.com/2010/05/18/ten-thousand-waves-change-welcome-tweens/
http://valkyrieice.blogspot.com/2010/07/on-government.html
http://hplusmagazine.com/editors-blog/quantum-dots-future-vr
http://hplusmagazine.com/2011/02/14/adding-our-way-to-abundance/
http://hplusmagazine.com/2011/02/18/watsons-descendants-will-make-you-obsolete/
http://www.acceler8or.com/2011/10/how-transparency-will-end-tyranny/
http://www.acceler8or.com/2012/01/le-future-according-to-val-part-one-when-technologies-meet-interact-and-things-go-boom/
http://www.acceler8or.com/2012/01/the-future-according-to-val-part-2-consequences/
http://www.acceler8or.com/2012/03/kara-the-lesson-of-adam/
http://www.acceler8or.com/2012/05/3460/
Posted by Pastor_Alex on 06/15 at 07:12 PM
Interesting. As our forms become more fluid through technology, do you foresee a day when some people will need to access help to determine the form/gender/self that they are?
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/15 at 10:10 PM
Actually, as I currently see it, far too many people rely on external factors to define who they are. They have no sense of self identity beyond what others define them as.
You have to ask yourself, “What Am I”, and if your identity is “Banker, Janitor, Jock, Pastor, Lawyer, etc, then yes, in the not too distant future, and I mean quite possibly by the end of this decade, you are likely to suffer from a crisis caused by a loss of identity.
We are entering into a period where so much is in the process of changing so quickly that our current social structures are on the verge of collapse. And despite what some people would have you believe, this is not a bad thing. Our current social systems were designed to cope with a world in which very little of anything was under our control, and in which survival itself was a zero-sum game. Just to live from day to day, we had to form groups to maximize our chances of survival, and assume roles within those groups as “specialists” to maximize our abilities to collect and use resources. And once you became a “specialist” you pretty much were stuck doing it for all your life. Even our family names reflect this reality.
This is no longer the case, and becoming less so. We are becoming specialists of a different sort, one where our “specialty” is not imposed on us by society, but one which we ourselves must discover. Many of us are still trapped in socially defined roles for which we are ill suited, perform badly as, and would gladly change given the chance, others are more contented, but performing jobs which will all too soon become obsolete. The social structures we have are all designed to support a very unequal system of resource distribution, in which the overwhelming majority of the human population is engaged in production of resources, which are in turn claimed as tribute by the least productive members of society.
And there are numerous factors all supporting this “pecking order” that has grown up along side the development of human culture, including genetic causes which make it inevitable. The problem is that anyone who defines their identity by their role or status in the pecking order is going to rather suddenly find themselves cast adrift as the continued advance of technology shatters every support for the “social ladder.”
Ask yourself what a racist will do once anyone can change skin color? What is going to happen to his smug assumption that he is higher on the pecking order than someone of a different color? We are already seeing this in effect with the massive unrest caused by Obama’s election, in which everyone claims race is not an issue, but who want ANYONE else in office, so long as they are white.
Ask yourself what the “jocks” will do when augmentation means a “geek” could play sports better than a hall of famer?
What will “Geeks” do when anyone with a mental augmentation can debate physics with Hawking?
What will the “Pretty girls” do when there are no longer “ugly girls”?
What will male supremists do when they discover that millions of “males” would prefer to be female? (and believe me, I know far too many males who play exclusively females online, but who wouldn’t consider themselves “transgender” simply because transitioning is far too difficult for them to wish to cope with, but who would likely become a woman if it was cheap, easy and reversible if they changed their minds.)
And this is far from a comprehensive list. Every “certainty” we have grown up with is about to come crashing down around us as we enter a world of enormously greater choice.
And no. I don’t think the overwhelming majority of the human race is either ready, or capable of coping without help.
http://hplusmagazine.com/2011/04/07/dreams-of-a-succubus/ discusses this as well.
Posted by Chrontius on 06/16 at 12:57 AM
I’m just gonna throw it out there, but what about all the furries out there?
My money’s on they’ll be among the H+ early adapters, since it’s basically that or nothing.
Posted by Khannea Suntzu on 06/16 at 02:32 AM
Heya sister. Uncanny is it?
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/16 at 09:27 AM
@Chrontius
Read my links hun. I’m one of the few futurists actually willing to admit to being a furry, having furry friends, and taking the efforts of furries to achieve morphological freedom into account.
Posted by Elsie Broek on 06/17 at 04:13 AM
I found this an interesting read since being trans in RL and having an interest with the OZ books I could in some part identify with Val.
It may be that transgender folk and transhumanist folk both suffer from a tendency to be judged (by the cisgendered and others) by the effort and permanency of the changes they make. By that logic cross-dressers and drag queens are taken “less seriously” than say, someone who is “post-op” and taken some time and effort in changing their physical and social selves. But another assumption comes with that and that is to assume the lowest degree of change in someone you’ve “read”. Both attitudes are little more than bigotry, but they are common.
By extension what is the equivalent for transhumanists? Effecting a different persona in Second Life is one thing, but just how seriously is that taken outside the virtual world. The cost common thing in virtual worlds is cross-gender roleplay. And yet there are those who engage in romantic and other relationships within virtual worlds who are still shocked when they discover that real-life gender and appearance in no way matches that in the virtual. Perhaps this is why Furries cause problems in certain quarters.
But there are other issues here as well. I am one of five alts in SL, and together we make webcomics for our “owner”. Two are almost always female, two are almost always male, and the fifth changes depending upon the script. One is almost always a Furry. But in general social events only two are very active otherwise in SL, and have more of their owner’s personality invested in them. For a while they shared two relationships with two other alts that had the same owner. And yet those relationships were very different. So who’s to say that any of us are more or less real than the original (real world) personality behind us?
Conversely Live2Give is/was a collective of of people with cerebral palsy who all own an avatar in Second Life (I don’t know if this is still active). In this case one avatar represented several people, instead of one person having several avatars. The base assumption of most folk in SL is that there’s only one person behind each avatar, and that may not always be the case. People have been known to give or sell avatars as well. Ultimately though, it may not matter.
Lastly I suspect that the issue of CHOICE is a red herring. Earlier today I watched an RSA Animate video on Choice. It suggested that in a Capitalist society having “too much choice” is actually counter productive and serves to reinforce existing social orders. Rather than people following choices on what they really want, there is a tendency to make choices which are a compromise. Many apparently made choices which are more socially acceptable because they are afraid of ridicule and criticism over their preferred options.
In a virtual world like Second Life that may not be the case, as one can find all sorts or communities and interest groups for any number of tropes and interests. Why else would there be so many Gorean Sims and groups?
Posted by Leyvenn on 06/17 at 05:47 AM
It was a pleasure reading this interview. Thank you, Hank and Valkyrie Ice.
Valkyrie, I hope you can fulfill your desire to become on the outside the succubus you feel on the inside as soon as you can.
In my personal case, my ultimate goal would be to exist without a body. Not as a “ghost”, but as a mind entity able to interact with both the physical and the virtual world (or any other alternative worlds that are discovered or created in the future). But in the meantime, my preferences float around the concept of gynoids. I want to be a synthetic female.
It feels uneasy when people expect to act as the macho you aren’t. I’m tired of that. It was particularly uneasy during my teens, when I wasn’t very aware about the existence of the paths of self-observation, self-understanding and self-definition. At least now I have a goal along these lines.
I’m one of those who have great expectations of the many social / cultural paradigm shifts working in synergy which we are going to witness within the short/mid term. That is, if the global economic crisis can be stopped. I’m very worried about that, but that’s a different topic. Let’s see what happens in Greece today.
I would like to take this opportunity to launch a question to everyone:
What are your personal goals with regards to radical change in physical appearance?
The more we talk about this, the better 
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/17 at 06:14 AM
It was a pleasure reading your elegant defense of my article on privacy and secrecy as well Leyvenn.
As for my personal goals, I think I will at first work towards becoming simply female. Once I have achieved that goal, I actually plan to deviate from immediately pursuing becoming a full fledged demoness for awhile simply because two of the aspects, the wings and horns, would not merely be difficult to accomplish, but without the needed technology to enable me to shrink or grow them at will to accommodate current human architecture such as doors, low ceilings, and so forth, it will simply be easier to assume one of my more comfortable alternate forms, my “Neon Jackal”
(WARNING NSFW) http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/Valkyrie_Ice/ValNG.jpg (Warning NSFW)
which will merely require a tail prosthetic, a face prosthetic, ear prosthetics, and modified skin and hair colors.
My full succubus form is likely going to need to wait until we have significantly advanced nanotech to enable the extreme physical makeover required to make both the external and internal modifications I envision. If sufficient interest in the details of that is expressed, I will post the extremely long overview of those mods. However, since I am a shapeshifter, my appearance is subject to change at a whim. I do view myself as having a “base form”, but the details of hair and skin tone are malleable.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/17 at 06:23 AM
Oh, and on the topic of “global economic crisis” It’s a symptom of the paradigm shift from scarcity to abundance. It more or less has to happen, because we’ve reached a point where scarcity can no longer be artificially propped up, and the overabundance of nearly every raw material is eroding the “value” of manufactured products which forms the basis for the entire economic model. It sucks. It will cause a lot of people a lot of suffering. It will lead to some very nasty situations as the “elite” strive to hold onto the “status quo”, but once the transition has been made, things will be radically better.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/17 at 06:37 AM
@ Elsie
Yes, due to “peer pressure” many people do make choices other than what they would naturally be inclined to chose. That is due to the current structure of the pecking order, which is based on the assumptions that many things “cannot be chosen” and in which attempts to make choices contrary to “status quo” can result in loss of “status”.
However, as I have pointed out numerous times, the “pillars” that support the current “pecking order” are about to be shattered, and that will leave the “status quo” in ruins. We will have little “choice” but to abandon many of our concepts of “immutability” and find new systems to determine “status” that will not rest on “unchangable accidents” but on “conscious choice” and “maximized diversity.”
As Leyvenn stated recently ” in the process of understanding what a different future could mean to us, we need to rethink society from a radically different set of collective and individual rules and preconditions.” The RSA video examines current society, but does not address a society in which very different social conditions exist.
Posted by Elsie Broek on 06/17 at 07:19 PM
Undoubtedly people will be familiar with the performance artist Orlan (see http://www.orlan.net/) whose performances included videos of her cosmetic surgery set to music and commentary. That fact that this is “Art with a capital A” has allowed her to explore issues surrounding body modification outside the normal contexts.
Posted by Matthew on 06/18 at 01:28 AM
I find it strange that Samuel R Delaney has never come up in any of these conversations.
He is the first Sci-Fi writer to have explicit homosexuality as a topic among Sci-Fi, and I think he is also the first Sci-Fi writer to deal explicitly with the topic of Transexual Characters (it is a theme in three or four of his works, one of which dates to the 1970s).
And I think focusing upon purely gender or sexual issues for identity is probably far too narrow.
Some people do tend to define themselves sexually. Furries, for instance.
Great, create something to allow them to turn into giant teddy-bears, anthropomorphic kittens and puppies, Inari, or Pikachu/Kyubi no Kitsune hybrids.
But what about people who want to be a truck?
Or a desk? Or a cell-phone?
Is this really any different than a person wanting to be a stuffed-animal sex-toy?
Posted by Leyvenn on 06/18 at 03:40 AM
@Valkyrie:
“My full succubus form is likely going to need to wait until we have significantly advanced nanotech to enable the extreme physical makeover required to make both the external and internal modifications I envision. If sufficient interest in the details of that is expressed, I will post the extremely long overview of those mods.”
I find it to be a very interesting topic. When you mentioned wings with the ability to shrink and grow at will, did you mean some kind of dynamic contraction and dilation of matter? Has anything to do with shape memory materials or would it entirely be a complex nanosystem that expands from pre-recorded shape patterns?
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/18 at 08:53 AM
@Leyvenn
Actually, as I envision my final form to retain a “pseudo” biological framework, more akin to actually moving the cells out of the wing structures to allow them to “ungrow” and “grow”, essentially distributing the cells temporarily elsewhere in my body. I don’t really envision actual change of mass, just change of structure. At least initially. Later versions utilizing string tech could possibly perform actual matter/energy conversions, but that will depend on whether string theory proves a viable theory or just a mere mathematical fantasy.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/18 at 09:07 AM
@Matthew
Nope. Not at all. I’ve encountered furries, vamps, klingons, Cylons, Cyborgs, and even those who would gladly exchange their bodies to become full metal robots.
And yes, that does include those who would kill to be “transformers”, or a car like “Lightning McQueen”
People want what they want, and when not feeling pressured to “fit in” they will opt to go with their personal desires, no matter how “odd” others might find it. And that will mean we will have to accept them for what they desire to be.
SL has already had some examples of this, that they have opted for repression of, such as people who chose to play childlike characters. As the technology develops, we will have to face situations like this, and it might even be hard at times to bite our tongues and live and let live, but eventually, we will have little choice but to accept that one man’s evil is another man’s good, and find ways to allow maximum diversity, and promote absolute tolerance. So long as we do not harm others, every path must be tolerated.
Posted by Khannea Suntzu on 06/18 at 09:08 AM
See? I *so* take the more low tech approach to this. I’d have my wings, horns and tail animate and functional all the time. It would be “there”, and I’d deal with it, including ripped sweaters and sewing a small hole in my jeans to have my tail dangle out. No contrived nano-wings and such for me; I’d want the whole immersive experience.
Or maybe I’d have to store my tail somewhere convenient in some other way. I am sure I can think of something.
If I want big tits I don’t want big tits part time, or when “convenient” or anything like that. Big ones come with issues when jogging, right?
Posted by Khannea Suntzu on 06/18 at 09:13 AM
As for the age play topic - whereas I am not interested in pre-teen partners myself (I like my toys rugged and well-developed!) I’d certainly would LOVE being “pretty damn young” once, myself. My default self-image is of a “pretty well-developed” woman in her mid 20s, but I like variation and I would certainly not mind exploring having a body of, say 13. And yes that would entail having sex me being in a body of 13.
Now anyone who is reading this who would be offended - this would not be engaging anything illegal since I would have a mature mind, and would engage in sex with a mature partner. Male or female.
But strictly as an exercise in trolling the legal system (is what I do unacceptable) this whole experiment would be frigging hilarious, since I’d be a consenting adult. Hopefully even a consenting adulteress.
Major dilemma right?
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/18 at 09:14 AM
@Khannea
*giggle* I am a shapeshifter hun. That makes every detail about me malleable. I’m also one of those annoying types who loves her creature comforts - including internal structures to provide lift and support, and minimize such issues while jogging. What can I say? I’m a demoness, and want all the benefits while eliminating anything I see as a hassle.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/18 at 09:23 AM
And once we’ve eliminated the possibility of accidental pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases, and start having to face the reality that sex no longer leads to any “dangers” beyond a “broken heart”, I think you’re not going to be alone in exploring former “taboos” Khannea dear. Current sexual “mores” are vastly different than they were just a century ago, much less several centuries ago. It will be interesting to observe, to say the least.
Posted by Matthew on 06/18 at 11:29 PM
See… I don’t buy into the whole “every path must be tolerated” thing (to say nothing of the fact that it appears that you are conflating “tolerate,” and “accept”).
Already, humanity has ruled out a fairly broad section of behaviors and desires that are not just forbidden, they are intolerable.
The many and various psychopathies we have Identified as being dangerous to society, for instance.
I don’t think we should be encouraging people to explore these, even in a virtual world.
Do you really want to give people the permission to create worlds where it is OK for them to act out genocide upon sentient beings within that world?
What makes this different from acting out those same urges in this world upon the sentient beings of this world?
Making some sort of excuse along the lines of “some people might want to be tortured,” or “we can create sentient beings who want to be tortured” tends to suggest that one is rather blind to the nature of the problem with these suggestions, or with the psychopathies of those who wish to act out such brutal fantasies to begin with (such people are rarely satisfied with willing victims).
But, these specific instances of intolerable realities mean that the set of intolerable realities that we do not wish to enable is probably larger that just these examples.
Posted by Chrontius on 06/19 at 02:02 AM
@Matthew: I want to be a starship when I grow up.
@Valkyrie: In the mean time, I intend to be a small green dragon, or perhaps a Beowulf cluster of up to a half-dozen simultaneous incarnations of same. (Is there a term for that sort of existence yet?) I’d probably keep another half dozen clones in cold storage, and a similar number of purely mechanical, heavy-duty bodies suitable for manual labor. (One of them picks up the back end of the car, another changes the tire…)
@Khannea: “If a man could have half his wishes, he’d have double his troubles.” Ben Franklin, if I recall. And that’s probably far more fun than the alternative, to the extent you can fit into a typical residential building.
@whoever: Are aerogel breast implants feasible, or would a utility fog filling be necessary?
@Matthew: I thought I read something about “if it harm no other” in one of Valkyrie’s posts. I’ll quote for simplicity’s sake: “So long as we do not harm others, every path must be tolerated.”
Posted by Khannea Suntzu on 06/19 at 02:59 AM
Matthew I Hear you.
But - what if I do it anyway, and technology allows me - what would be the consequence you propose?
Because I agree with you. How do we deal what what the many regard as intolerable, and “you can’t even talk about it” ? This is damn tricky (and maybe I raise this topic to explore the legal implications rather than the act itself).
Posted by Leyvenn on 06/19 at 06:03 AM
@Matthew: I agree that some paths are dangerous, and tolerance should have its limits. With the arrival of fully immersive virtual reality, sex-bots, haptic technologies, etc., as a society we’ll be forced to use the old ‘trial and error’ method. We’ll need a growing presence of values regarding tolerance, and at the same time we’ll be constantly readjusting and even redefining our levels of tolerance. As individuals we’ll feel too tempted to experiment with a growing myriad of desires and news ways to feel, while as members of a society we’ll deal with complex questions about what we should tolerate about the sensory paths of others. We’ll be exploring many different paths, and some of them will cause some victims here and there (from slight physical, psychological or economical harm to death). If the victims and the degrees of harm are numerous enough and the majority agrees that something in particular is not acceptable, as a democratic system society will put limits, ranging from laws to group psychological/moral pressure.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/19 at 06:25 AM
@Matthew
Actually, you are making a rather large assumption there Matthew.
I’ve stated repeatedly that a basic inviolate right is the right to be free from having harm inflicted on you by another. That does not mean that society must allow harmful actions to occur.
To answer your example, sure, I have not one single problem with someone creating a virtual world where they can slaughter at will. However, if they attempt to carry out such actions outside that world, I also have not the slightest problem with confining them within that world forever, and erasing them from the rest of society. They can spend eternity locked inside their own personal little reality.
Toleration means everyone is free to do as they wish - WITH THE FULL UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WILL BE FULLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Try to harm someone without consent, you pay the price.
I don’t give a damn what you do. But you will have to accept the consequences if you choose to act in a manner which inflicts harm on others WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT. And in a world in which EVERYTHING is recorded, and such consent cannot be coerced, any such psychopathic behaviors will be immediately apparent, and those with them should be given a choice: therapy to eliminate the problem, or permanent removal from society by being given their own personal “heaven.”
Posted by Blauhung on 06/28 at 03:50 AM
Great interview and very good discussion.
@VAL, I believe I’ve independently arrived at a similar conclusion to you on how society will monitor itself. The concept of universal persistent surveillance of everything in a way that is made accessible to everyone. Any entity participating in any socially unacceptable activity would be easily found out and then would find themselves facing the consequences for their actions. Those not doing anything of note would not be worth monitoring.
As for the topic at hand, my personal ideal for my seat of consciousness would be the ability completely share my memories, senses and cognitive processes with another body. That other body could be one of my own design, or even merging with another person (with their consent).
Posted by Facilitator DaNee on 06/29 at 11:48 AM
This is a great article and I was excited to see people who think along the same lines I do being more involved with Transhumanism. The understanding of variation (flexibility) which transgender people bring to transhumanism is, I think, going to be invaluable.
I do think that my being transgender and bisexual gives me a better understanding of the changes which transhumanism can bring because I live them everyday. As I like to put it “putting the trans in transhumanism.” However, I have found that it does give me hell when dealing with the transgender community who seem to be caught up in very limited visions of what it means to be female as well as male. Many of them are just as caught up in the illusionary gender/sex binary as any straight person.
Just wanted to say that I hope to run into some of you in Second Life since I have decided to jump back in.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/29 at 07:32 PM
@Felicitator
Nice to run into other trans who understand that forcing other trans to conform to gender stereotypes is just as harmful as cis forcing of gender stereotypes.
Forcing ANYONE to conform to a stereotype denies that person the freedom to be themselves, regardless of who they are, or what they are.
Posted by Valkyrie Ice on 06/29 at 08:23 PM
@Felicitator
PS You might also enjoy reading this: http://valkyrieice.blogspot.com/2012/06/sex-sex-bots-and-feminism.html
Which further clarifies my views on “gender war”
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